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Webheads chat logs are posted on the Internet to assist language learners with comprehension of our conversations and to strengthen our sense of community through shared familiarity with one another. All are welcome to join us, but your participation in our activities implies that you approve of our posting on the Internet interactions in which you take part. Please address any comments or concerns to Vance Stevens.
(C)opyright 2003 Vance Stevens

Webheads chat logs from July 6, 2003

Find where everyone first joined the chat: Maggi in Germany | Vance in Abu Dhabi | Fernanda in Portugal | Heather, Amy, and Leanne in Bernie Dodge's course in San Diego | Susanne in Denmark | Christopher in Germany| Buthaina in Kuwait | BJB in Pennsylvania | Rita in Argentina | Kelly in San Diego perhaps? | Teresa in Portugal | Amanda | Juani in Chile | Nancy in Michigan | Guohuaye in China | Sandy | Maria in Cordoba | Sara

Tapped In

2003.07.06 04:06:32 Login

Room: TI_Reception

VanceS joined the room.

VanceS: hi

MargaretD: Hi

FernandaR joined the room.

FernandaR: hi

VanceS: Hi Fernanda

MargaretD: Hi Fernanda

VanceS: brb (pp)

MargaretD: I need to take a pitstop too

VanceS returns from pit stop, tires changed, windshield cleaned ..

HeatherM joined the room.

VanceS: Hi heather

AmyAl joined the room.

VanceS: hello Amy

MargaretD: Hi Heathr and Amy

AmyAl: good morning

VanceS: have you come for the webheads sessions?

AmyAl: I am from Bernie's class in san diego. I came yesterday but not many people were here so am back again.

FernandaR: brb

VanceS: Welcome back Amy

VanceS: I was going to ask Maggi how the Saturday sessions were going

VanceS: I was away in Oman yesterday

VanceS: got back a little after your session ended

AmyAl: Thank you. Where are you from Vance?

MargaretD: Mosly just Bernie's classes

VanceS: I'm from Texas originally, lived in California for a while, and now I'm living in Abu Dhabi, UAE

VanceS: and it looks like I may end up back in California shortly

LeanneD joined the room.

MargaretD: Hi Leanhne

VanceS: Hi Leanne, welcome to the Webheads sunday noon GMT sessions

VanceS: and you are welcome to join us

HeatherM left the room (signed off).

HeatherM joined the room.

HeatherM: Help! How do i get to the webheads discussion??

MargaretD: youu are here

HeatherM: ok good--thanks

VanceS: yes, welcome

LeanneD: heather - we're in the right place?

MargaretD: Heather are you in Bernie's class, too?

HeatherM: alright, I wasn't so sure

HeatherM: Yes I am in Bernie's class

AmyAl: maggie, it seems like there are a lot of us from bernie's class here again. Do you expect other people to be joining the discussion?

MargaretD: yes, they will be wandering in..

AmyAl: ok

MargaretD: Vance is here, too.

VanceS: I think we may be discussing the summer carnival shortly as well

VanceS: I'm reading the emails

VanceS: looks like that takes place July 16

MargaretD: what?

VanceS: The annual Tapped In Summer Festival

MargaretD: soory...carnival

VanceS: I think Webheads are joining with the Real English people to develop an event

VanceS: It's very nice to see people returning to us from Bernie's class

VanceS: I'm curious what you are learning from us that you can apply to your coursework

HeatherM: leanne- you are in the right spot!!

MargaretD: Do you enjoy making webquests?

HeatherM: Vance and Margaret, do you both attend this session every week?

AmyAl: yesterday there were only people from bernie's class in the discussion so I dont think that was too help fjul because ideally we will be able to see how we can use the internet as a tool

SusanneN joined the room.

VanceS: what degree program are you in?

LeanneD: I think we're all in the credential program

AmyAl: Our class is ending tonight so we all just finished our webquests

LeanneD: or some people are already teaching

VanceS: teaching ESL?

MargaretD hugs Sus

SusanneN hugs Maggi

HeatherM: Yes we teach ESL.

VanceS: So how to use the Internet to help learners learn English

HeatherM: Sorry-ESL students

VanceS: yes, that's what writing for webheads is about

VanceS: I guess you have the url?

MargaretD: just a tad different to EFL

VanceS: yes, correct (to Maggi) - Webheads students are EFL

HeatherM: We don't necessarily the internet, but we use literacy breakthrough programs on the computer. I would like to be able to incorporate the internet as a tool for the students, I just need good ideas on how to do that.

SusanneN: Hi Heather, Leanne and Amy, I see you're all from San Diego. I'm Sus in Denmark, also a webhead (student/researcher) and a helpdesk here inTI

VanceS: I have a lot of ideas on that

AmyAl: hi

LeanneD: hi

HeatherM: Hi Susanne

SusanneN: you're up very early today!

MargaretD: Webquests are good for itermediate and up students

ChristophJ joined the room.

MargaretD: well, maybe beginners in the US

MargaretD: Hi Chris

ChristophJ: Hi everyone!

HeatherM: What would you suggest for a very young student with very little or no English?

ChristophJ: It's been a while

SusanneN to San Diego students : I understand that you are familiar with Bernie Dodge

VanceS: Hi Christopher?

SusanneN: Hi Chris!

HeatherM: Suzanne-- we are somewhat familiar with Bernie

VanceS: Would you San Diego 'guys' like to see a seminar I did on Internet Applications in Language lerning?

ChristophJ: yes, Vance in good ol' Germany. How's windows treating you Sus?

MargaretD: Using the Internet would not be easy then

HeatherM: vance, sounds great


LeanneD: sure vance

VanceS: I think you can click on that and see it

SusanneN: Oh Chris, It is really Learning by Doing with me and Windows. Bi?t I am trying not to challenge teh cybergods too much

ChristophJ: cybergods? you lost me

VanceS: it's still that way with me, Sus

ChristophJ: oh, as in cyber-fate

MargaretD: There is a picture dictionary that might help, for young learners.

VanceS: Sus, Chris is one of the cybergods, so be careful what you say

VanceS . o O ( kidding )

ChristophJ: You wouldn't think I'm a cybergod if you saw me try to get up in the moring

SusanneN: I feel safer by now. I am protected by PC-cillin, an even better feeling that with Norton.

ChristophJ: I use Norton as my .... protection

VanceS: I'm on Norton and Zone Alarm

MargaretD: I have PC-cillin, too

HeatherM: Is this usually how the discussions work, very casual and just a few people?

ChristophJ: double protection

SusanneN: how's your Zone alarm working for you now, Vance?

MargaretD: Zone Alarm Pro for security

VanceS: Yes, Heather

SusanneN: VERY casual but often also very relevant

ChristophJ: sometimes the discussions are casual with a lot of people (I'm Chris in Germany, nice to meet you Heater)

VanceS: We've been meeting like this since 1998, so this is not the complete picture

ChristophJ: Heather

HeatherM: My pleasure, chris

VanceS: we can show you our chat logs:

HeatherM: his chris

HeatherM: oops, hi chris, i can't type this early

SusanneN: as a foreigner, it has been a tremendous learning opportunity to learn all about using computers and internet in education and community building on a foreign language :-)

VanceS: this is the Writing for Webheads site, which you probably know

ChristophJ: I am analyzing the chat logs from last year at the moment


VanceS: and the chat logs are here

HeatherM: chris, what do your mean by analyzing the chatlogs?

SusanneN: Chris, I am also reading backwards in our chatlogs for the time being

VanceS: here you can see what we have done and get some perspective

ChristophJ: dangerous question, Heather (doctoral dissertation)

HeatherM: thanks, vance

SusanneN: Chris has developed a lot of interesting cirterial for his analysis. Pretty explosive stuff


VanceS: one fun thread we've been pursuing is here:

SusanneN: this is SO typical

ChristophJ: there is the proposal. The others (especially Sus) know quite a bit about it, so I won't rehash it here

SusanneN: LOL now we can see who's following which URL trail

VanceS throws out more url breadcrumbs

SusanneN: I will not reveal your secrets before due time, Chris

ChristophJ thinks the new link feature is much better than the old project/show command

VanceS: Here is a site that one of our members did that tries to assimilate how we branch out:

ChristophJ: Thanks Sus

VanceS: I think Chris's disertation should be one of the links

ChristophJ: Tere's WIA index is a good starting point

ButhainaA joined the room.

ChristophJ: Hi Buth!

ButhainaA: Hi everyone!

MargaretD: Hi Buth

HeatherM: hi

LeanneD: (heather - thanks for doing all the talking - i'm not a big online-chatter so now i can just read along with your thoughts) :)

SusanneN: Yes, Tere has done a fine job putting these links up in an orderly manner

VanceS: She has a link to here, Chris but it's broken: Establishing an Online Community of Practice for Instructors of English for Specific Purposes

SusanneN hugs Buth!!

ChristophJ: Oh, thanks Vance, I'll send her an e-mail

VanceS: and Buth in Kuwait is another good example of how Webheads help each other

HeatherM: no problem, Leanne, if I don't type i will fall asleep, since it is only 5am!! :)

SusanneN hands out hot coffee for everyone

ButhainaA: Hugs to you too, sus...

AmyAl: thanks

ChristophJ: 5 a.m., are you on the West Coast Heather?

HeatherM: thanks Suzanne

ButhainaA: and thanks Vance for introducing me in this way.

SusanneN: Buth, meet three students from California

HeatherM: chris, yes I am, in sunny San Diego

MargaretD: SanDiego Chris

VanceS: check out Buth's Baltimore TESOL Online colloquium presentation: Establishing an Online Community of Practice for Instructors of English for Specific Purposes

SusanneN: is the sun already up yet?

AmyAl: no

VanceS: woops

VanceS: didn't paste

ChristophJ: San Diego is nice

VanceS: trying again:

HeatherM: yes, beautiful weather

ChristophJ: I'm from smoggy LA (been in Germany for 10 years)

AmyAl: chris, do you teach English in Germany?

ButhainaA: Hello and nice to meet you..

VanceS: My son is moving to Irvine in September and we may join him (my wife and I)

SusanneN: we do have a cloudy day here in Farum near Copenhagen. Too bad since this week is the Jazz festival

ChristophJ: permantly, Vance?

LeanneD: I think I'd rather go to Germany than Irvine :)

ButhainaA: oh, really Vance?

SusanneN: Vance, that is interesting news

ButhainaA: are you going to leave UAE?

VanceS: I am not familiar with this word, how you say .. permanent? strange concept ...

HeatherM: Buth, you live in Kuwait?

ChristophJ: You need to spend one winter here before coming to that conclusion, Leanne

VanceS: I have spent winter in Germany

ButhainaA: yes, I do Heather

VanceS: I recall leaving milk on the table (colder than in fridge)

ButhainaA: I'm from Kuweait

LeanneD: I've lived in snow and such before.... I love the snow and rain - i'm not a big sunshine/beach/hot weather person

HeatherM: have you lived their all your life?

ChristophJ: ...uh (rephrasing)..... are you planning on setting up shp in Irvine, Vance (house, job, etc.)?

MargaretD: Moscow is worse Chris.

ChristophJ: good point, Maggi

ChristophJ: I used to say I loved rain, too. That's because I was in So. Cal. Now, I don't say that any more

ButhainaA: the winter weather in moscow is exactly like that in upstate NY

MargaretD: lol

ButhainaA: I've been to moscow earlier, and lived in Albany,Ny and both are terrib ly cold in winter with lots of snow..

MargaretD: Chris has seen enough rain in Germany

ChristophJ shakes the rain from his umbrella

SusanneN: we were at an outdoor concert in rain on Friday, not too much fun. We left to take our coffee in the car instead of listening to all that rain (it was acoustic jazz and we were too far from the trio playing).

VanceS: My situation is that I have to be out of my apt in Abu Dhabi in mid August

ChristophJ: I never even owned an umbrella in LA

SusanneN: Vance, that means you will have to make up your mind

ChristophJ: so....then it's Irvine (or finding a new apt???)??

VanceS: yes, so far, no forwarding address

ButhainaA: Vance, when are you going to join your son?

SusanneN: what about teaching or consulting all online, that would make you a total global nomad

VanceS: Moving to Irvine or San Diego or LA for a year would save us in out of state fees

VanceS: for his college

SusanneN: aha

ChristophJ: ah...

ChristophJ: but I think he needs to live there for a year first

ChristophJ: I was just talking to a friend about this

VanceS: actually I've started trying to train myself in ASP which I think I would need for consultancy

VanceS . o O ( Chris is correct )

ChristophJ: Vance, I would love to learn ASP with you ... started a few years ago. PhP is similar

VanceS: The out of state differential is $12,000 and we have to pay that the first year

ChristophJ: I need to bone up on some tech stuff

HeatherM: sorr guys, what is ASP??

VanceS: which do you recommend, Chris, ASP or PHP?

ChristophJ: ..... not sure, Vance

ChristophJ: the Unix people tend to like PhP

ChristophJ: and swear it's better

VanceS: If you want to learn /about ASP check here:

ChristophJ: ASP is Microsoft

ChristophJ: it depends, I gues

BjB joined the room.

HeatherM: thanks vance and chris

ChristophJ: but the concepts are similar

SusanneN: without knowing much really, I believe that PhP is much more current today

SusanneN hugs BJ

MargaretD hugs BJ

VanceS: do they do the same thing? like both display info from your template from dbases?

ChristophJ: ASP is a code you put in Web pages that activites server commands (ask me if that is like a foreign langauge to you - no prob)

BjB smiles and hugs/kisses/waves where appropriate

ChristophJ: I think so, Vance. I have heard that PhP is more flexible

VanceS: AND the server has to be running IIS I take it

FernandaR: how are you using asp, Vance?

ChristophJ: for ASP or PhP?

ButhainaA: Chris, do we teahers have to be familiar with such tech terms ASP & PHP, I know them but keep forgetting what they mean ..

VanceS: that's a microsoft software that sets you up as a server, if I got the acronym right

VanceS: I just started, Fernanda

FernandaR: just plain code or do you use any software to do it?

ChristophJ: IIS

VanceS: but I really need to learn how to keep dbases and develop web pages that run off them

ChristophJ: out of my league a little. I played with ASP with the MS personal server

SusanneN: Buth, I think some teachers really ought to know if good teaching opractices should be developed from bottom up...

VanceS: What do you think Fernanda? ASP or PhP?

FernandaR: I use macromedia dreamweaver mx to do it

VanceS: Yes, I noticed when I was using Dreamweaver that it coded ASP

SusanneN: but I am not keen on coding myself nad decided not to learn more than just enough to understand a little about terms and such

ButhainaA: right Sus..

ChristophJ: Vance, if you have a Unix/Linix server then PhP is the way to go, if you are on an MS server I would go with ASP

FernandaR: I don't know anything about how to to make php files

ChristophJ: Dreamweaver has ASP built in, I think

VanceS: Well, it's the host that is the server, right?

ChristophJ: yes, host = server

VanceS: I mean, the host has to support them

ButhainaA: neither me Fernanda, I'm more of ASP user..

ChristophJ: that's right Vance

SusanneN left the room (signed off).

SusanneN joined the room.

FernandaR: some server administrators don't want asp because it seems may bring security problems

VanceS: what do you need to run PHP?

ChristophJ: Don't know

VanceS looks it up

FernandaR: don't know either

ChristophJ: need to bone up on it (fisrt thing after dissertation is finished)

ChristophJ: ASP is a problem - anybody can make a Web page with ASP commands

HeatherM: what is your dissertation about?

ChristophJ: and if the server doesn't have the right security - bam!

FernandaR: well, it's not as easy as that, Christopher

ChristophJ: My dissertation is comparing Community of Practice theory with Webhads in Action


SusanneN: This URL seem to have some relevant info on both ASP and PHP

VanceS wonders what secrets Sus knows about the comparison

ChristophJ: yes, sure Fernanda, you're right. They would never sell it if it was that easy

HeatherM: chris, sounds very complicated :)

ChristophJ: Please keep wondering Vance

ChristophJ: give me a few months

VanceS: looks good

SusanneN: Vance. my secrets are still unspoken -I do know only rudimentary bits and pieces, really

ChristophJ: yes, Heather, ridiculously complicated

VanceS: These links look good:

HeatherM: how laong have you been working on it?

FernandaR: how do you make asp, Christopher?

SusanneN: I found a log that claim to have reasons for prefering PHP to ASP

ChristophJ: Two years ago, Fernanda (and not since), I hand coded it into Web pages with SQL commands. It was for a database course I was taking. Haven't look at it since

VanceS: According to the blog sus showed us MySQL is the dbase of choice?

FernandaR: I use microsoft access

ChristophJ: sounds convincing to me (just skimmed Sus's site)

VanceS: We were using Access at the MLI but there seemed to be good reasons to go to SQL

ChristophJ: Access is good for quick small databases

FernandaR: I'm afraid I'm not an expert on databases

ChristophJ: If you want anything big (e.g. institution wide), it's best to dump it and use Oracle or whatever

VanceS: next EVOline session I want to run a study group on this

FernandaR: I'm not an expert on anything else, either

ChristophJ: cool, count me in

ChristophJ: I'm no expert. I dab in stuff

VanceS: and for your next reading assignment:

ChristophJ: assignment?

VanceS: one of those archaic words, like lurker

ChristophJ: Oh, OK

VanceS: and for your downloading pleasure:

VanceS: ah, here's a PHP/MySQL tutorial at WebMonkey:

ChristophJ: Vance, I think one thing to consider is whether you will have your own server or will be using other people's servers

VanceS: yes, a good consideration if you're working on a LAN or WAN or VPN

JuaniGuest1 joined the room.

VanceS: but if you're doing web design, it has to be hosted I would think

VanceS: I mean, working on the Internet

ChristophJ: Also, whether you will be using ASP - for small databases ...... or setting up stuff for insitutions

MargaretD: Hi Juani

VanceS: Hi Juani

ChristophJ: small databases like for a class ..... or something for the whole insitution

ChristophJ: Hi Juani!

ButhainaA: wow, thanks for all those links..I'm thinking of composing a page with the tech terms we need, since I keep forgetting them..!

VanceS: Yeah, starting small is the first step

ChristophJ: good point

VanceS: I'm just using google to come up with links

ChristophJ: then maybe try both and see which one (ASP or PhP) gets what you want done easier and faster

VanceS: I like WebMonkey though, a good service

JuaniGuest1 left the room.

VanceS: I'm still at the stage of trying to work out what they do exactly

FernandaR: you may have difficulty in hosting asp files for free without advertising

MargaretD: Juani is a teacher in Chili for those in San Diego.

HeatherM: thanks margaret

AmyAl: thanks, hi Juani

ChristophJ: I missed out - are all the San Diego folks students (Heather, Amy, Leanne)? What are you students of?

VanceS: that URL I just gave out looks about what I want to do

AmyAl: we are earning our teaching credentials

AmyAl: we are here as part of an educational technology class

VanceS: planning to teach in California public schools?

ChristophJ: Hey, cool, getting my Ph.D. in edu tech

HeatherM: we are in a credential progrmam, we are all going to be elementary school teachers!Only two weeks left--HOORAY

ChristophJ: Congrats to you 3

AmyAl: yes but the job market does not look so good

HeatherM: you too!!

ChristophJ: thaks, but congratulate me at the end of August

VanceS shakes in trepidation at prospects of job market in education sector in California

ChristophJ: Edu sector is pretty robust in hard times - that's the good news

HeatherM: are you doing your PhD work at a university in Germany?

VanceS: this is California, that's the bad news

ChristophJ: yes

ChristophJ: that was an agreement to Vance's assessment of the CA edu market

ChristophJ: I am doing my Ph.D. at Nova Southeastern in Florida - by distance

VanceS: do you have to spend time in FLA?

ChristophJ: I did (4 trips to Florida)

ChristophJ: that's finished

ChristophJ: Now it's only Chapters 4 & 5

RitaZ joined the room.

JuaniGuest1 joined the room.

MargaretD: cheaper than going to Calif.

ChristophJ: Hi Rita!

FernandaR: what's FLA?

MargaretD: Hi Rita

MargaretD: wb Juani

RitaZ: hi, people!

VanceS: Hi Rita, the sun must be coming up in South America

ChristophJ: FLA = Florida

MargaretD: Florida

RitaZ: which sun, Vance....winter sun...:-(...?

FernandaR: ok, thanks

ButhainaA: Vance, is W4W active, at present?

VanceS: yes, quite

ChristophJ: (to Heather, Amy, & Leanne). Tapped-in is a cool interface. And the Webheads are a great group for educators - especially language teachers

VanceS: one of your students just joined, Buth :-)

JuaniGuest1 left the room.

ButhainaA: I would like shall I do this from the link on WIA offcial site?

VanceS: I think you can sort of gather how Webheads works

HeatherM: Tapped -in seems like a good experience!

VanceS: it's hard to explain, but it happens, and people seem to like it and make it one of their good habits

AmyAl: thanks for letting me join you discussion this morning, it was educational, bye

VanceS: yes, you can Buth

ButhainaA: yes, he told me..and so excited about it..he also mentioned you and how you are kind and helped him with HTML.

ChristophJ: bye Amy

VanceS: Nice to see you here Amy

VanceS: welcome back

AmyAl left the room (signed off).

VanceS: I would like to help more students with HTML in the W4W class

VanceS: it has been my dream to get them making their own web pages

SusanneN is back after some reading

VanceS was wondering who was doing all that scrolling

FernandaR: a simple webpage is not difficult to make

SusanneN: Vance, that osunds like an excellent idea, helping Wfw creating homepages

HeatherM: I would like to thank you for letting me join your disscussion as well. I now understand how this site works. You guys are great, and I actually think I learned something. Thanks for the links on working with English Language Learners. Have a good day, Bye-bye.

SusanneN: Bye heather

VanceS: ta

SusanneN: enjoy the logged chat in your mailbox

VanceS: with all the meaty urls

FernandaR: bye, heather

VanceS: or veggie, if so enclined

ButhainaA: bye Heather

ChristophJ: bye Heather

HeatherM left the room (signed off).

RitaZ: sth i want to share: I?ve come across a very good site for "learning with role-play games" at

SusanneN: fresh grown URL projections

KellyB joined the room.

SusanneN: Hi Kelly

SusanneN hugs Rita, I did not see you before

KellyB: HI

RitaZ hugs dear Sus back

VanceS: Hi Kelly

LeanneD: alright i suppose it's time for me to leave now... hi kelly.... it was cool having you here this morning to keep me awake - glad you made it home safe

SusanneN checks Rita's URL

VanceS: This site on RPGs would be a good one for Nigel and his role play Interest Section proposal

ButhainaA: That was my dream too Vance..Although some of my students managed to build their own homepages, but some found it very difficult..

LeanneD: (kelly was at my house this morning reading along with me)

JuaniGuest1 joined the room.

SusanneN: I see, leanne and kelly

SusanneN: Hi Juani!!

LeanneD: alright - i'm off now that kelly i made it home and back online...

VanceS: I have suggested the web page creation idea to students

LeanneD: g'night :)

RitaZ: hi, Juani

VanceS: it hasn't 'taken' yet

ChristophJ: bye Leane, hi Juani

VanceS: cya Leanne

LeanneD left the room (signed off).

SusanneN: Vance, not all students would be ready, but maybe you could ask a few to create useful examples of easy looking homepages

ButhainaA: the reason for finding it difficult is that they don't read the instruction carefully, and when you show them they realize then that it is not difficult to do it..

RitaZ: i opened up a Xanga site for my stds....tried to coax them no avail....

VanceS: Some starter sites like Filamentality can be good

VanceS: First step is to get a web space, like with Geocities

MargaretD: maybe Juani is having connection problems

SusanneN: I think that blog tools like Xanga are a cool way to help making easy HTML available - you can do it with our without code

RitaZ: sites can be good, stds seem indifferent , thats the problem!

JuaniGuest1 left the room.

VanceS: maybe if each of us took a topic and sort of ran with it for a week or so ...

JuaniGuest1 joined the room.

VanceS: so we've got Rita and Sus on Xanga

SusanneN: I think it is a mistake to beleive that everyone want a personal ME page

VanceS: That's correct, Sus

RitaZ: maybe, Sus!

VanceS: they seem to LIKE it though when we do it for them

RitaZ: right!

SusanneN: some people would do better if they ewre asked to document somethingn they like or know or just care for

ChristophJ agrees with Sus

ButhainaA: In my case Sus they all wanted

ButhainaA: but at the end afew only managed..

SusanneN: these experiences are useful stuff

SusanneN: Buth, can you tell how you tried to introduce the page making?

MargaretD: point for those in Sd

ButhainaA: I told them , they can develop it and use it later as their portfolio for a future career.

FernandaR: how old are your students, Buth?

RitaZ: do they care, Buth?

VanceS: Maybe we could develop it like the WIA site, sort of a tuturial which we develop as we go and leave in place for others to follow

SusanneN: me, personally, I felt embarassed for a long time to create a page revealing who I REALLY am - I mean who the heck cares?

RitaZ: lol

ChristophJ: I had students do web pages at the university where I taught

ChristophJ: one of the questions that came up - was it language learning or Web page design?

SusanneN: yes, Vance

ButhainaA: Sus, made a number of online pages to explain to them the prokject, but the one that worked is the final one and you can view it on here:

MargaretD: good question Chris

ChristophJ: a lot of the students went for graphics and multimedia effects

VanceS: when it's part of a course and the syllabus is projects based portfolio you can get students to make pages as part of their portfolios, evaluated

ChristophJ: I had to put in minimum language requirements

SusanneN: and the way you have organized the personal Webheads pages actually made me feel less exposed and more like, just one of a larger group!

ChristophJ: agree Vance

FernandaR: I agree with you, Chris, I don't feel comfortable using class time to teach my students to create webpages

VanceS: Buth has covered setting up a web site

SusanneN: the portfolio idea is great IMHO

VanceS: I've got an old one I did for Maggi long long ago

ChristophJ: agree

JuaniGuest1 left the room.

ButhainaA: And some of my students, Chris, copied and pasted from other websites..!

SusanneN: maggi'

SusanneN: maggi's first w4w page?

ChristophJ: Yes, Buth I had the same thing happen (copying and pasting)

VanceS: no, it was a training site for teachers, I'll find it

ButhainaA: Fernanda, I've never used C-lab sessions' time to teach website building

ButhainaA: students do it oin their own and consult me onlkine, or during office hours

RitaZ: yet, thats sth, guys! swows some interest!

VanceS: the thing is, it's language learning

FernandaR: I've done that in club hours, for example

VanceS: it's no more web site bldg then visiting a library is a lesson on cataloging

ButhainaA: exactly , Vance, and I keep emphasing this objective to them..

RitaZ: not exactly, Vance

VanceS listens to Rita

RitaZ: more demanding than contacting a librarian..;-)

FernandaR: it may become time consuming, Vance

TeresaD joined the room.

SusanneN hugs Tere

ChristophJ: I think the way to go is to use the sites for communication - iwth some fast tool with a low learning curve. I would never do HTML in a language class

TeresaD: hello all

ChristophJ: Hi Tere!

RitaZ hugs tere dearly!

FernandaR: hi, Teresa

MargaretD: Hi Tere

TeresaD: hi chris. have missed you!

VanceS: in my humble opinion, making web pages is an excellent substrate for language practice

VanceS: hi tere

TeresaD: hugs everyone

ChristophJ: vacation, then a hard disk crash, ... then (better wait on the 3rd one)

ChristophJ: nice to be back

ButhainaA: Hi Teresa

TeresaD: chris, have you finished your diss?

FernandaR: but when they fail in making a very simple sentence, you have to think twice, Vance

TeresaD: hi buth. long time no see.

ChristophJ: still analyzing data, Tere. There is just so much (you guys talk a lot)

ButhainaA: yes, hope you are doing good.

TeresaD: yes, we do.

ChristophJ: Done about a third of the asynchronous and working on the synchronous now

VanceS: If they put pages up, you can help them with the simple sentences

TeresaD: i am, buth, thanks

VanceS: the important thing is that they have something to say, how they say it is secondary

VanceS: function WAY over form, imho

SusanneN: IF your actual level of English is strong enough to understand how to use applied HTML, THEN you might use it in an actual EFL course, ELSE this mighht be too hard to undestand

ChristophJ totally agrees with Vance's form/function opinion

FernandaR: provided you understand what they want to say

AmandaLe joined the room.

AmandaLe left the room (signed off).

MargaretD: Hi Amanda

SusanneN: Tere, we're discussing Vance's Rita's and Buth's experiences on creating homepages with EFL students

ChristophJ: could do that in a technically oriented course, Sus

JuaniGuest1 joined the room.

ChristophJ: ESP, that is

SusanneN: Yes, Chris

TeresaD: thanks, sus. is there a site?

ButhainaA: Ok. chack for example this student's home page:

JuaniGuest1: hola

RitaZ: just sharing responses from uninterested stds, Tere..

VanceS: what level do you teach Fernanda?

ChristophJ: good idea, Sus, especially if the students don't know HTML and they need it

TeresaD: i see, rita

ButhainaA: he has done, some grammar and spelling mistakes and errors

MargaretD: you made it this tie Juani!

ButhainaA: however, it was fine with me

TeresaD: hi juani

ButhainaA: and told him to correct them later when he find them out

NancyHe joined the room.

SusanneN: take care, that page URL was snatched by Gator, and I refused the cookie

FernandaR: they are supposed to have level 6/7... I mean they have 5/6 years of English...

VanceS: that's good Buth. I used to teach an ESL course of my design where the final project was a yearbook

MargaretD: Hi Nancy

NancyHe: hello Margaret, all :)

SusanneN . o O ( I've had lots of trouble with Gator, I think it is spyware )

VanceS: what if WE wanted to meet your students Fernanda

VanceS: Like Sus says, she thinks, who cares

MargaretD: I read it is Sus.

ButhainaA: And how was the result Vance

VanceS: but the point is, we all care

ChristophJ: Hi Nancy

SusanneN: but apart from that, Buth, it looks like an interesting page

ChristophJ: this is a good assignment Buth

VanceS: with the yearbook? In the days before Internet, a way for students to project who they were to a wider audience

FernandaR: but our educational system allows students to move on, even if they don't get to the necessary level

VanceS: when they start to sense that wider audience, the communication flows

RitaZ: in my case here, out of 15 stds, only 4 are interested in meeting other stds from different countries for a chat

SusanneN: what is the yearbook, who writes that? Is each student writing about him/herself?

ButhainaA: interesting , Vance

FernandaR: I have so many projects for next year, Let's wait and see

VanceS: enter a project where they go out and photograph their town and create a page that links the pictures. I have a model

VanceS: The students wrote the yearbook and laid it out

SusanneN: I remember that, Rita. But don't you think that in case thiose four students tell the rest about it, they might motivate them to join us for aonther time?

JuaniGuest1: we?re trying to write a yearbook also

RitaZ: so it seems to us, Sus, but thats not what has happened

VanceS: Here's my hometown project:

GuohuayeY joined the room.

SusanneN: Hi Guo

MargaretD: Hi Guo

ButhainaA: ok. Thanks for the useful info. guys, I have to go to the hospital to see my father.

ChristophJ: hi Guo

ChristophJ: All the best to your Dad, Buth

MargaretD: Bye Buth

NancyHe: buy buth

RitaZ: bye, Buth, hope he gets better

ButhainaA: bye and thanks all.

TeresaD: hope he is doing better, buth

ButhainaA left the room (signed off).

TeresaD: bye!

SusanneN: Bye bye Buth, I am happy you joined us today

SusanneN: ah, too late

JuaniGuest1: it looks pretty,Vance and very interesting

VanceS: bye buth

RitaZ: i will try to show my stds your page, Vance

FernandaR: you seem to have a good life there in Abu Dhabi

RitaZ: as a hook...

SandySTT joined the room.

VanceS: best wishes to you father

GuohuayeY left the room (signed off).

MargaretD: Hi Sandy

GuohuayeY joined the room.

SusanneN: a geographical or cultural , local page would be even more interesting than a personal page

RitaZ: true, Sus

SusanneN: and could also be created as a collaborate project

JuaniGuest1: I?l show the website to my advanced class,too.

SandySTT: Hi everyone

SusanneN: Hi Sandy

VanceS: exactly

VanceS: yeah, now it's their turn

ChristophJ: Hi Sandy

SusanneN: I visited a primary school in Fance some years ago...

VanceS: let's compare hometowns

TeresaD: hi sandy

VanceS: Hi Sandy

RitaZ: hi, Sandy

SandySTT: Hi

SusanneN: they were deeply engaged in creating a CD-rom about water with many other schools

MargaretD: Ni hao Guo?

SusanneN: teh local water conditions, of course

SandySTT: what are we talk here now?

SusanneN: those kids were grade four.

JuaniGuest1: I?ll love to write something like that.What software did you used Vance?

SusanneN: Sandy, we are talking about how to engage students to make homepages as a learning project

MariaJ joined the room.

MargaretD: Water - did you know the average American uses 440 liters a day?

TeresaD: hi maria

MariaJ: Hi Teresa

RitaZ: hi, Maria

MariaJ: and all

TeresaD: wow, maggi! that is a lot!

SusanneN huga Maria

SandySTT: ic, I am working as a CIO in school, maybe I can help.

SusanneN: Maggi, that is way too much!

MargaretD: really riduculous Tere

MariaJ: what are you talking about?

MargaretD: Germans average 110

RitaZ: whats CIO, Sandy?

TeresaD: seems like a lot of waste, doesn't it, maggi?

SusanneN: Sandy, what is a CIO? I'm in Denmark and does not know the expression

AmandaLe joined the room.

SandySTT: Chief of information officer.

SusanneN: Oh, I see

AmandaLe left the room (signed off).

MargaretD: That isn't all Americans waste, Tere.

RitaZ: wow, Sandy, that sounds important!

SandySTT: I also teaching student how to make their homepage.

AmandaLe joined the room.

ChristophJ: Hi amandy and Maria

VanceS: Sorry, I was looking for a tutorial I did for Maggi

SandySTT: what software ur useing?


RitaZ: what program do you use, Sandy?

VanceS: it's out of date, but is an example of how you can use ppt to explain to students how to make web pages

SandySTT: to make homepage? frontpage

VanceS: could revise it


AmandaLe left the room (signed off).

AmandaLe joined the room.

AmandaLe left the room (signed off).

VanceS: softwere for my hometown site was just html

AmandaLe joined the room.

VanceS: you can make a template, or use mine

MargaretD watches Amanda try to connect

VanceS: then students just fill in content

SandySTT: hi! Amanda

GuohuayeY left the room (signed off).

AmandaLe: hi sandy

SandySTT: HTML?that's good for teaching, becoz that's the basic students needs to know.

SandySTT: Hi Amanda?Maryann is not here

SandySTT: I've visit here for almost 5 times try to meet her.

AmandaLe: i am testing my notebook

AmandaLe: i buy new one

SandySTT: notebook?

MariaJ: there is a website there that does not run, Vance... will be the famous attack from hackers today?

VanceS: I found that to do my hometown, I needed a template that would display a pic and some text and then give forward and back links

AmandaLe: i remember you bought one ASUS metoo

SandySTT: I worried that we interrupt others here. lets go to ur room to chat.

BjB left the room (signed off).

VanceS: so you set up the template and then have the students put in the pics and text and links forward and back

BjB joined the room.

VanceS: hiBJ

AmandaLe: ok to you room

BjB waves

SandySTT: fine!see u there

AmandaLe: hi BjB

SandySTT: hi BJB

TeresaD: hugs, bj

MargaretD: I need to go wash my hair...

BjB smiles and hugs warmly

MargaretD: bye for now and have a good week!

AmandaLe: which romm do you want to move sandy

SusanneN: Oh oh, I'll have to do some shopping before they close at four, This discussion was useful and fun.

MariaJ: bye Margaret

SandySTT: amanda, i go to my room first.

SusanneN: bye bye for now

SandySTT left the room.

TeresaD: great week, maggi

VanceS: bye all who are leaving

AmandaLe: og i will follow you

ChristophJ: Tere, Vance said the link to my dissertation stuff on your WIA index page is dead. You probably told me already, and I didn't respond. The site is

VanceS: btw sus before you go ...

SarahBW joined the room.

ChristophJ: bye everyone. Hi BJ!

MargaretD . o O ( Sus can shop on! )

SarahBW left the room (signed off).

TeresaD: thanks, chris. i don't think i did. i will update it.

VanceS looks for Sus in the crowd

TeresaD: there is so much to add there!

ChristophJ: thank you, Tere

VanceS: building pages is easy, maintaining !!!

AmandaLe left the room.

VanceS: that's why we need PHP or ASP

TeresaD: i agree, vance

MargaretD left the room (signed off).

TeresaD: pls fill me in on that, vance.

ChristophJ: yes, can alter links on the fly

VanceS: We can pass you a copy of our initial discussion Tere

VanceS: or maybe I'll post it online and you can read it there

VanceS: I'll ty to do both

VanceS: We captured a lot of links

TeresaD: i would appreciate that, vance

VanceS: anyway, I was going to ask Sus or anyone if the Summer Fest thing was well in hand

VanceS: I got a lot of emails about it but haven't quite absorbed

VanceS: I[ve been away

VanceS: (in Oman)

TeresaD: has anything come up in the meantime, vance?

TeresaD: workwise, i mean

VanceS: Not yet, irons in the fire, some heating slightly

VanceS: this is not a good time to find work in the UAE

VanceS: like trying to get things done in France in August

TeresaD: and here in portugal, where everything stops

VanceS: about the summer fest, anything we should know?

VanceS: can help with?

TeresaD: has bj left? she could fill us in

ChristophJ: Vance, could I ask ... what happened with your job?

BjB: The launch festival seems to under control, although we can use more helpdesk volunteers

BjB: Dianne Allen is in charge of volunteers (DianneA)

TeresaD: is the 12-hour program completely booked, bj?

VanceS: sorry, smelled cookies in the kitchen

VanceS chews cookies

TeresaD: can i have some, vance? yummy!

FernandaR: can we have some?

BjB: yes, it's over 12 hours, Tere!

ChristophJ: chocolate chip?

JuaniGuest1: me,too.

VanceS: I miss the slash command .hand cookies to /all

TeresaD: wow, bj. great!

VanceS: choc chip, mmm

BjB it was cookies that finally solved your login problem, Juani?!

VanceS: about my job, I had a contract which ended June 10

VanceS: we were pushing for renewal

VanceS: and told May 31 that we wouldn't get it

VanceS: up to then led to believe we would

ChristophJ: I know the story, Vance - had the same situation here - 5 years and then bye

VanceS: the non-renewal was political

VanceS: did you just lose your job Chris?

ChristophJ: usually is

ChristophJ: no, actually that was last Sept.

ChristophJ: I have been doing a bit of freelance and my disseratation

ChristophJ: it's been good to have the time for the diss

TeresaD: i bet, chris.

VanceS: the hard part is having to uproot - can't stay here

ChristophJ: yes, am in that situation too

VanceS: have to leave?

ChristophJ: but it's now less harder to uproot

ChristophJ: no, I can stay in Germany if I want to

ChristophJ: that's no prob

TeresaD: why less hard to uproot, chris?

ChristophJ: well, if I want to work as a professor, I mostly likely have to leave Karlsruhe

TeresaD: i think the older we get, the harder it is. you're younger than me, though

ChristophJ: where I've been for the last 10 years

ChristophJ: I'm 43

TeresaD: i'm 53! but don't feel the weight!! :-)

ChristophJ: so that means I have to relocate anyway

ChristophJ: it can be Germany.... or somewhere else

TeresaD: chris, why less hard to uproot?

VanceS: you'll at least have a phd, good for job prospects

ChristophJ: we'll see Vance. It's a ticket, but no guarantee. That was the idea

ChristophJ: less hard to uproot because of divorce

TeresaD: i see

VanceS: ah, that can't be easy in and of itself

ChristophJ: don't recommend it

ChristophJ: but the hard part is over (a year ago)

VanceS: I have the opposite problem, no divorce and a family to support, one kid just entering college

TeresaD: i'm glad i don't know what that is like personally, though there are several cases in close family

JuaniGuest1 left the room (signed off).

VanceS: so it's been a hard year for you Chris, but your CoP is pulling for you

ChristophJ: thanks guys, you are great!

VanceS: it's something, might even be someone in the extended family that can put you on to a job

TeresaD: we sure are, chris.

FernandaR: perhaps a vacation would be good (besides hard work)

ChristophJ: Just went on one, Fernanda

VanceS: I mean, suggest something (even a vacation spot)

ChristophJ: 3 weeks in the state

ChristophJ: was great

ChristophJ: met a real nice lady on the plane. She set me up with her best friend. Sparks are flying. It's nice to be alive. I'd better shut up now. Don't want to jinx anything

FernandaR: good!

TeresaD: great, chris

TeresaD: chris, when i sthe deadline for your diss?

ChristophJ: life is not bad at all

ChristophJ: want to finish before Sept

RitaZ: (.enjoy life, Chris, its only one!!!)

ChristophJ: yep

VanceS: I figure I'll come out ok too

ChristophJ: I have some good freelance prospects in Spet.

FernandaR: life is great and so are friends

TeresaD: i agree 100% fernanda

ChristophJ: Vance, I would say that with your reputation in TESOL and the EFL world, you'll be fine

TeresaD: live life to its fullest, chris!

FernandaR :)

ChristophJ: thanks, Tere. doing that

TeresaD: i am too at this time. i've been enjoying my vacation

FernandaR: Vance is eating his cookies

ChristophJ: What's the first name that pops into your head when you think of CALL?

ChristophJ: Vance Stevens

ChristophJ: right everyone?

RitaZ: right, Chris

TeresaD: right, chris.

TeresaD: vance, no cookies for me?! :-(

VanceS places cookie on Tere's computer

ChristophJ: A warm chewy chocolate chip cookie with a tall glass of milk sounds really good

VanceS: trouble is, CALL is not all that relevant I don't think

TeresaD: yuuummmyyy! fabulous! thanks, vance

VanceS: young people have CALL skills second nature

ChristophJ: everyone harps on it. CALL extends into edu tech (a specialized branch of edu tech)

ChristophJ: yes, maybe

VanceS: yes, ed tech is more relevant, and for this you need the skills we were talking about earlier

ChristophJ: server side skills (ASP/php)

ChristophJ: yes

VanceS: I think the ability to design web sites, yep, those

FernandaR: don't you have any work prospects, Vance?

VanceS: and not just HTML web sites, so to keep up and really get a job I think you need to be able to contribute with scripting or at least understand it in order to delegate

TeresaD: vance, with e-learning having such an important role nowadays, i think everything is important

VanceS: There are many work prospects. I think I have to go to California and sit a while and bide my time

FernandaR: why don't you start your own school?

VanceS: there are a lot of highly skilled people without work these days, Chris for example

VanceS: why haven't you found a job?

ChristophJ: ah...

VanceS: or is freelance the way to go (like with Maggi :-)

NancyHe :: fading out into the ether ::: Thanks for the lurk time :)

ChristophJ: German university system wants either techies or liberal arts

VanceS: welcome any time Nancy

ChristophJ: I am exactly in the middle

NancyHe: best to you, Chris & Vance, in your Life Changes ahead

NancyHe left the room (signed off).

ChristophJ: thanks Nancy

VanceS echoes Chris

KellyB left the room.

ChristophJ: or.....they want you to be an expert in a subject plus having edu tech skills

ChristophJ: a pipe dream, which is why they constantly readvertise those positions

ChristophJ: Education theory mixed with tech, that's me

KellyB joined the room.

ChristophJ: I also have only been applying to universities in Germany - that's about to change

ChristophJ: Also, things might be better once I have my ph:d

ChristophJ: Hi Kelly

VanceS waves to Kelly

ChristophJ: I'm working hard on it

KellyB: Hello

ChristophJ: But you guys certainly gave me a lot of data to analyze :-)

VanceS: can't wait to read the outcome

ChristophJ: OK, I need to finish this for more than one reason, as you can see

TeresaD: me too, vance. i'm dying to read it

MariaJ: I have to go...

MariaJ: see you later

VanceS: ah you'r there

VanceS: what were you working on btw?

ChristophJ: I can't keep my distinguished Webheads in suspsense much longer

MariaJ left the room (signed off).

VanceS: I'm going to have to leave myself

ChristophJ: That's my cue to get back to work

VanceS: yeah, well, nice talking to everyone

ChristophJ: Folks, thanks for all your support, kind words, and encouragement. And Vance, all the best and luck to you

ChristophJ: Talk to you all soon

FernandaR: all the best and luck to everyone

ChristophJ: ditto, everyone

VanceS: yeah, and just as we are important to one another, this is the key to bringing students to the Internet

VanceS: makes everyone feel important and appreciated

ChristophJ: yes, ture

ChristophJ: true

TeresaD: bye, chris. hugs and great week.

ChristophJ: same to you Tere and everyone - bye!

FernandaR: bye!

VanceS: ok, see ya

ChristophJ left the room (signed off).

BjB: time for me to leave too.

VanceS: breakfast time?

BjB . o O ( sorry I've not contributed to the dialogue today )

BjB: hubby and I need to go run some errands

TeresaD: bye, bj. nice week.

VanceS: ok, cya then

BjB hugs to you later

RitaZ: bye, BJ!

VanceS: oh, let us know if you need anthing for Summer fest

BjB: Rita, did you get my email about your question?

BjB nods to Vance. Please keep the dialogue open with Mike and Elizabeth

VanceS: I'm a little distracted these days, you may need to bonk me on the head to get my attn

RitaZ: yes, BJ, thanks, but need to try it to see if i get it...;-)

BjB nods to Rita

BjB understands. Been there myself, Vance.

BjB . o O ( hubby was 'retired' suddenly after 30 years )

BjB: take care and hang in there...things get better

BjB left the room (signed off).

VanceS: well, anything else to discuss before I bid you farewell?

VanceS: did they ever get that TESL-EJ article up?

TeresaD: yes, vance. yesterday i found out it is at the berkeley site

KellyB left the room (signed off).

TeresaD: you mean the chat article?

VanceS: yeah

VanceS: yes:

VanceS: Fernanda, you've seen this, right?

FernandaR: seen, yes, but did not read it completely

RitaZ: bye, people, need to join hubby for a sunday outing!

VanceS: It links to your work and should be up for a long time

RitaZ: CU all next week

FernandaR: bye, Rita, enjoy it!

TeresaD: where's sus? did she log out?

VanceS: ok Rita, bye

RitaZ: you too, Fer, thanks

TeresaD: bye, rita!

VanceS: see you next week

RitaZ hugs you all

VanceS: I've got to go too, let my son use the computer

TeresaD: vance, any news of the pci?

VanceS: he's been very patient

RitaZ left the room (signed off).

FernandaR: if there is any problem with my server, I'll move it somewhere else

VanceS: no news yet, I think they're a bit behind

TeresaD: i see

TeresaD: fernanda, are you planning on going to tesol next year?

VanceS: I've had communications with them suggesting that our proposal has led to discussion which we're trying to push to the next step so I think the PCI thing is still viable

FernandaR: where will it take place?

TeresaD: vance, send me today's log, will you?

TeresaD: long beach, ca

VanceS: ok, will do

TeresaD: thanks, vance

VanceS: see you guys

FernandaR: I don't think so, Teresa

TeresaD: see you. nice week

FernandaR: bye Vance

TeresaD: have you ever been to tesol?

FernandaR: no

TeresaD: i've only been once

FernandaR: very far away

TeresaD: it's an interesting experience

TeresaD: but i love california

VanceS: had to find the logout window

FernandaR: I've never been to the US

VanceS: maybe I'll be living near long beach

VanceS: ok, off now ...

TeresaD: great, vance

VanceS left the room (signed off).

2003.07.06 07:37:08 Signoff

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Last updated: July 6, 2003 in Hot Metal Pro 6.0