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Chat with students Paolo from Italy, Aline from Brazil and Moral from China, and teachers Maggi, Michael, and Vance |
The regular Sunday chat was held in two different places: Moral couldn't reach the voice chat and Michael hasn't been able to get the Palace lately, so those two couldn't meet. With newcomers Aline and Paolo happily talking with Michael in the voice chat, Vance and Maggi kept up with conversations in both areas. Interestingly, both chats moved onto the same topic, the value of the Internet in teaching and its impact on politics and society, at about the same time. The HearMe plugin was used to excellent advantage in the voice chat, with explanations of what was said being written out for students who had difficultly understanding spoken English. Meanwhile, in the Palace, the conversation moved on to the Falungong and whether cults should operate freely or be subject to government control or repression.
This chat has two parts: The Palace part and the Voice Chat part
No connection - Click Anywhere to enter a Palace
Searching for Plug-ins...
PalacePresents Viewer Installed!
Connecting to efi.virtualscholar.com:9998
Connected via TCP
*** Welcome to The Virtual School House
Vance again!
Vance:
@64,64 !It's Vance again
Vance:
I've got to juggle my windows here
Vance:
OK, I think that's got it.
Maggi: hmmm...juggling eh?
Vance:
Yeah, ok time for a p break.
Sergei's still there but not responding to ICQ.
Vance:
brb
Moral: @64,64 !It's Moral
Moral: Hi Vance and Maggi!
Maggi: Hi Moral
Maggi: there zyou are ...:-*
Moral: where are you 2, in the voice chat?
Maggi: yes,,,
Moral: with who else maggi?
Vance:
Hi Moral. How are you? Nice to see you again. With Aline and a new student names Paolo
Vance:
named ...
Moral: i am fine. thanks.
Maggi: I have a question Moral..
Moral: please go ahead mggi.
Moral: maggi..
Maggi: Today again I read that more people were arrested of
the Falun Gong
Moral: Oh, i do't know. it is not reported here. where did you
get the information?
Moral: don't..
Maggi: it is in the papers her and with pictures
Moral: i just don't know about it. but i'll check it online later.
Maggi: why does the government , do you think, arrest
them...they were doing nothing but celebrating the birthday of the founder.
Moral: how many are arrested?
Maggi: lots
Vance:
Hi, was this just recently? I've
heard it in the news, but not in the last week.
Maggi: women and children too
Moral: Oh, children?
Vance:
Where?
Moral: do you know much about falungong?
Maggi: in Beiging
Maggi: ooops...yes I do
Vance:
It seems to me that Falun Gong is not dangerous. Do you think they are Moral?
Moral: i am not sure...but let's talk about before you talk
about your flys and getting away from vientnam war...
Maggi: flys!!!!!!!!!LOL
Vance:
Moral, can you repeat the question?
Moral: i don't think what government do is right. they should
do things under law...
Maggi: you mean flying and not going to Vietnam
Moral: flying...
Maggi: whose law Moral?
Moral: i think chinese law is enough about it...
Maggi: the Chinese law does not allow anyone to believe in
anything...
Moral: Vance...you told me you can drive airplane and you
succefully got away from vietnam war...how?
Vance:
Do you mean when I fled (escaped) going to Vietnam?
Maggi: that"s what he means
Vance:
Yes, I used to fly. That's it, I
was a private pilot, and I wanted to learn more about flying by going to the military,
the Navy.
Moral: in chinese constitution, i am sure, everyone has the
right to believe religion...
Moral: yes, i mean it vance...
Maggi: then why do they arrest the falungong...it is not even
a religion
Vance:
I took a medical and went to an interview but at the interview I told
them I had to think about it ...
Vance:
I had decided by then that I didn't want to kill people.
Vance:
So I didn't go
Maggi: and we have a choice Moral...in many countries you
don"t
Moral: you were right vance.
Vance:
I'm curious about that too. I don't really understand what's dangerous
about Falun Gong.
Maggi: if China went to war and they said you had to go Moral
could you say no?
Moral: let me tell you a little about it...
Moral: i will say no...
Maggi: and what would happen to you do you think
Moral: i see many people died in sino-vietnam war too..
Maggi: on both sides
Moral: i don't agree what the government does on falungong...
Moral: but i don't like the founder either...
Vance:
But why does your government object to Falungong?
Maggi: the article I
saw said the government had no idealogy of it's own so any other is a threat...
Moral: if a religion is based on fraud, what will happen?
Maggi: hey...if it is it will be exposed and people can decide
for themselves
Maggi: we have plenty of cults.
Moral: but in china, things may be different...
Maggi: falungong is not a religion...
Vance:
Is this religion based on fraud?
Moral: what is idealogy?
Maggi:
like communism or
Marxism
Maggi: or democracy
Maggi: then another article was about a young writer whose
books are being burned
Moral: what books?
Moral: the communism doesn't allow any opposition...
Maggi: A book called Shanghai Bsaby by Zhou Weihui
Moral: but they allow some unharmful religion...
Maggi: well...this is a tradition of govt in China and has
nothing to do with communism
Moral: i don't know the book. maybe because it is banned...
Maggi: why ban a book?
Vance:
Don't you think the Internet is changing people's attitudes.
Moral: almost every communism country does this..
Moral: i don't why maggi...
Maggi: This is from the article:
Vance:
Here in the UAE, a conservative country, the next ruler has said he sees
an end to censorship.
Moral: i dislike any block of information.
Moral: but let me talk a little more about falungong...because
we hold similar thought about other issues.
Maggi: Destroying books that challenge the state's worldwide
view occured as early as 213 bc when Emporer Qin Shi Huangdi ordered all books
in the kingdom burned to unify people's thought.
Vance:
Do you know many other people like yourself and Maggie, Moral, who meet
people from other countries online?
Moral: you much about
china 's history.
Maggi: this information is freely available
Moral: No, i don't know Vance...many people online don't know
english...maybe it your responsibility to teach them..hehe..
Maggi: we're trying
Moral: internet is also a threat to information block.
Vance:
Well, we can help them to learn
Vance:
I think it brings us all closer together.
Maggi: I have another one on icq and she sells tableware
Moral: the founder of falungong said the world would end in
1999...
Maggi:
well it
didn"t...and are you sure he said that
Moral: we are the people who want to know different thoughts.
so we are tegother.
Moral: i am very sure maggi.
Moral: and he also require people not to take medicine when
they are sick.
Maggi: it never appeared here and the man lives in the US
Maggi: and thast is news to me too...
Moral: the father of a friend of my sister refused to go to
hospital when he got severe cold...
Maggi: Idon't go to the hospital for acold
Moral: because falungong doesn't allow its member to take
medical care...the founder says it would decrease the members's degree if they
take medical cares.
Moral: maggi...it was lucky that it was only a
cold...falungong doesn't allow its members to take medical cares under any
circumstances...no matter you suffer from cancer, aids or else...
Moral: some people died for the delay of medical cares...
Maggi: we have other religions like that...but I read it was
basically meditation and a special form of exercise
Maggi: and why should that worry the govt?
Moral: i don't know maggi, maybe because they demonstrated.
Maggi: leave them alone and stop making a fuss and less people
would join
Moral: and it disgusted me when i heard that the founder said
he cured many diseses like polio by just slap the patients body.
Moral: i do't think what government does is right but
falungong is also disgusting...
Moral: the founder announced that the world would end in 1999
but he could save us if all people joined it.
Maggi: so...let them make up their own minds
Moral:
i may be right maggi...
Maggi: this is what people in Taiwn object to most
Moral: i prefer to agree with you...i just say falungong is
not a good things either.
Maggi: not having freedom to believe what they want
Maggi: whether it is good or not
Vance:
I personally don't like cults like this, and sometimes they can make
their members do bad things, but it just seems that these people weren't
bothering anyone.
Vance:
But i have to admit i havn't been following it all that closely.
Moral: but the founder bothers its members.
Moral: some people got mad after trying falungong. ( i don't
know why and if it was fault of falungong.
Maggi: how?
Maggi: all the demonstrations they have done were peaceful and
thousends have been arrested and sent to jail or other places
Moral: some people died because the delay of medical cares
because they believed the founder coould cure them.
Maggi: this makes the news here
Maggi: so....
Maggi: their choice
Moral: that's what i said goernment doesn't do correctly.
Maggi: education would solve that
Maggi: but not allowing people to believe in anything freely
will only cause these people to be stronger
Moral: in china, millions of people taked poor or none
education.
Moral: i agree with you maggi.
Vance:
It would be better if people could get all the information they want and
decide for themselves.
Vance:
Any government that supresses information is doing that for only one
reason ...
Moral: that's the perfect solution vance... not just ban it...
Maggi: educate them first so they can make responsible choices
Moral: it is too hard maggi. 1.2 billiion country.
Maggi: but your government has been doing this for
centuries...has nothing to do with communism
Moral: 1.2 billion people ..
Maggi: it can be done
Maggi: if they stopped wasting time and effort on other things
Vance:
If teachers could teach what they thought was correct, then finding
teachers would not be such a problem.
Moral: no, maggi...the us also mistreated the black
people...it is not all along with the history...
Vance:
But if the teachers have to be "taught" first, then ...
Vance:
That's a good example. I think
people in the US find that the better off the black people are, the better off
everybody is.
Maggi: yes and the information is out there for all to
see...same with the Aborigines in Australia
Moral: yes, teachers are not enough in china...because of
their poor salary mostly.
Maggi: there is a photo exhibition of lynching in the south of
black people
Moral: i mean the history does less than the system.
Maggi: the system has stayed much the same but the name has
changed
Moral: china is a country with thousands of years of history,
so history also affects. i agree.
Vance:
When more people like you find common ground with people like us
everywhere, then the minds of the people will change gradually.
Maggi: or at least we will learn to tolerate each other better
Moral: now there is compitition in econmic field... i believe
it is need in politics.
Vance:
I've got to go everyone. I
promised my wife, Bobbi, that would come home early.
Maggi: that could be tricky
Maggi: ok...bye Vance...stop and pick up a red rose
Moral: i personally dislike falungong. but i disagree what the
government does. that my views.
Moral:
bye vance...see you..
Vance:
If you want to send me more of your conversation, you can later. Up to you.
Vance:
It seems like it would be interesting to read.
Maggi: ok
Moral: how about you maggi, would you go?
Maggi: depends on how long we stay
Moral: Ok,
Vance:
Go on. I'm just going to grab
what's here so far and leave quietly.
Vance: Go on.
I'm just going to grab what's here so far and leave quietly.
Moral: see you vance...
Moral: maggi, seems like the western press has not reported
all about falungong.
Maggi: I don't have to go Moral
Maggi: or your press is making some things up
Vance:
I'm going to pay more attention to Falun Gong after this
conversation. Have you looked it up on
the Internet Moral?
Maggi: the man should have a site on the web
Moral: Ok, vance ... i 'll check and tell you more...i promise..
Moral: i can't visit the site i am sure.
Maggi: I could even look now
Vance:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/falungong.htm
Vance:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/default.htm
Vance:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/fa_lun_gong/falun27.html
Moral:
maggi, do you mean i am
misled?
Moral: thanks for the urls vance.
Vance:
http://anulib.anu.edu.au/clusters/ap/subjects/chi.html
Moral: you should know much vance.
Vance:
http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19991008/ige08004p.html
Vance:
http://www.minghui.ca/gb/00dec/1214/falungong_realstory.html
Vance:
There, I'll put those in the chat logs and look them up tomorrow.
Vance:
I just went to http://www.altavista.com
Moral:
thanks vance...
Vance:
Can you get those search engines, Moral, like http://www.google.com, or http://www.askjeeves.com?
Moral: i can reach http://www.yahoo.com.
but i never the one you refer.
Moral: the ones.
Vance:
http://www.hotbot.com, http://www.excite.com ... I guess my favorite
is altavista, but I like google as well.
Try them and see if the information is there.
Maggi: sorry...had to answer someone on icq
Moral: Ok, thanks again Vance. i will.
Vance:
That's ok, we've got the logs.
You can catch up.
Vance:
OK, I've got to run. See you
guys.
Moral: see you vance...
Moral: maggi, how you remember the word falungong?
Moral: how do you
Maggi: I take a picture of how the word is spelled
Moral: interesting.
Moral: falungong is not bad in the other points...it urges people
to be kind and tolerance.
Maggi: then I can tell when I spell wrong...it doesn't look right
Moral: and to be true.
Maggi: this is something people need to believe in...
Moral: i agree.
Maggi: ...it is something we as parents pass on to our children
Maggi: and from generation to generation
Moral: you are rather right...
Maggi: like Jose said...ethics
Moral: but in some points...
Maggi: what difference does it make what a perso believes if he
treats all the people in his life fairly?
Moral: it urged people to join it for the end of world.
Maggi: threatening is not right
Maggi: I have never seen a word of this
Maggi: and I read a lot of different things
Moral: it is threatening the system...so the government...
Maggi: and watch the news
Maggi: how does that threaten the system?
Maggi: it sounds like a bunch of kooks
Moral: me too. i am trying hard to get different information. i
just judge things myself. but if i was misles...
Moral: the system thinks so. i don't know. maybe because they
domostrated.
Maggi: and your govt right now would tell you not to listen to me
Moral: i subsrebed abc news. it's good. do you?
Moral: yes, but i will. i can make my choice.
Maggi: online? no...I seldom check out the news other than the
headlines online
Moral: mailing-list service.
Maggi: I read a newspaper everyday that is international
Maggi: and piles of magazines
Maggi: and what the news on tv...
Maggi: German, English and American because they all approach it
different sometimes
Moral: Ok, it is enough. but i like abc news. michael recomended
it.
Moral: the tv news is same here.
Maggi: I am sure it is good...
Moral: i like internet news.
Maggi: the first url Vance gave was not found
Moral: i didn't check them.
Maggi: and I read a lot of different things
Maggi: I'm doing it on the other computer
Maggi: got it
Moral: what is it?
Maggi: seems like it is similar to Reiki
Moral: reiki?
Maggi: finding the universal life energy
Moral: what else?
Maggi: they say it is a network for transmitting information and
practices in which people may dip pn an incidental basis or more regularly
Maggi: it incorporates Buddist nd Tazoixst principles with exercise
and body cultivastion
Maggi: sorry...Taoist
Maggi: it is not a religion cult or sect
Maggi: it is seen as a way of life
Moral: but it contains religion.
Maggi: it comes from ancient Chinese methods to cultivte mind and
body as a means of keeping fit and healing oneself
Moral: we can say it is basically.
Maggi: that is not religion
Moral: it only a part of it...
Moral: i don't have any falungong book in hand or i 'll tell more
about it.
Maggi: well this site explains the whole history of it...
Moral: i also teach something similar to religion.
Maggi: none of it sounds religious to me
Moral: it also
Maggi: I do basically the same with Reiki
Moral: the chinese government also says it is not religion... but
seems the west says so.
Maggi: and I don"t see it as a religion
Maggi: the West does not call it a religion
Moral: i remember they do...am i wrong?
Moral: Well, let's prepare and talk about it next time. nice
talking to you. how do you feel today's coversation?
Maggi: no...we don't ...that is propaganda from your govt
Maggi: great!
Moral: it's possibe.
Moral: maybe i misremember the source of the information.
Maggi: why do they send these people to labor camps without a
trial?
Moral: I don't know.
Moral: i can't explain.
Moral: it is not right i think.
Maggi: this is what is holding up admission of China to the WTO
Moral: yes.
Moral: Ok, will collect some information and we talk about it some
other time?
Maggi: human rights
Maggi: sure...it was great talking to you...should I save it and
send it to Vance
Moral: it is human rights problem. i 'd like to talk about
falungong.
Moral: yes. please do so. please correct it. it's too long.. :-)
Maggi: I'll read up on these sites too
Moral: Ok, i 'll check some chinese sites and we talk some other
time.
Moral: OK?
Maggi: ok...
Maggi: deal
Moral: a deal.
Moral: !
Moral: thanks maggi. bye for now!
Maggi: bye Moral...:-)
And people are also going back and forth between the Palace and the voice chat!
Maggi has
joined
Status: Connected
Vance has
joined
Vance: I
need to get a headset
Vance: brb
Vance: back
Maggi: did
you hesar that?
Vance: hello,
you there (here:)
Vance: no
Vance: hmmm
Maggi: it shows
that it is working here
Vance: try
again
Vance: yeah
Maggi: work?
Vance: yep
Vance: your
lit'es still green
Vance: http://lightning.prohosting.com/~vstevens/ctelt2000/ch000511.htm
Vance: Your
sound is breaking up pretty badly :-(
Vance: But
I heard you say something about when you left, and I saw in the logs where you
took your leave
Vance: You
were putting your shoes on as you were leaving and you could still hear
maggieEE ...
Vance: Not
getting good delivery, and your light is still green.
Maggi: hmm...
Maggi: but I
was offline and could still hear them talking whioe I put on my shoes.
Michael has
joined
Maggi: then
something is stuck on your end
Vance: I
guess it comes on green when there are still sound packets left to deliver
Michael: Hi
Vance. Hi maggi.
Vance: THAT"S
why it stays green
Maggi: right...like
you have something stuck on sour behind...besides the other end of a chqai
Vance: Did you
hear two voices there Maggi?
Maggi: no I
didn't
Maggi: it is
on your end then
Vance: I
didn't catch all of that
Vance: I
heard "more please"
Vance: after
a gap
Vance: and
"if you don't mind"
Vance: Now
I see two green lit icons and heard Maggi briefly
Vance: I
can't hear michael at all now but Maggi is coming through fine
Michael: can
you hear me Vance...OK
Vance: yeah
Vance: Well,
as usual, doesn't seem to be working perfectly
Vance: Now,
I held down my f9, nothing, then both of you have come on, and now I hear
nothing.
Maggi: so
what is ever perfect...
Vance: Oh
well, ...
Maggi: we
silenced us...
Vance: At
least it works when we take it public
Vance: I
can hear you now
Vance: Yep
Michael: That's
the important thing - that it works when we go public.
Vance: http://lightning.prohosting.com/~vstevens/ctelt2000/ch000511.htm
Maggi: so I
can put this thing on any web page
Vance: what
thing? The hearme? Yeah, anyone can.
Vance: can't
hear maggi again
Vance: silence
Vance: that's
what I hear
Vance: (nada,
zilch,)
Vance: aware
of what?
Michael: How
about me from me Vance?
Vance: I
know, you think we need a theme
Vance: What
problem is that?
Vance: No
central topic? Even when there is a
topic it's hard to keep people on it.
Vance: So
many people coming and going all the time, each entry and exit disrupts the
flow.
Vance: I
find at online conferences that holding a group of transient visitors to a
topic is like holding a fish down underwater
Vance: Can't
hear either of you so you'll have to write to me
Vance: I
heard maggi say that's not what this is all about
Michael: We
Michael: We are
talking about the session the other day - M thinks we spent too much time
tlkaking technical stuff.
Maggi: oh...Aline
is on icq but she can't see either of you
Maggi: well...was
it?
Michael: And I
didn't thk that there was too much rtech talk...
Michael: You'e
back V.
Michael: Thet
could be more moderated.
Michael: The Palace
sessions are different.
Vance: Thats
it Maggi
Vance: You
both did great, and Michael, at one point the room fell silent while everyone
listened to your presentation
Paolo has
joined
Guest817 has
joined
Maggi: who is
Paolo...?
Michael: Hello
Paulo.
Guest817 has
left
aline has
joined
aline: hi!
Vance: Good,
I just welcomed you and Aline
Vance: Hi
Aline
Michael: Hello
Aline.
Maggi: beautiful
city Aline...
aline has
left
Michael: I live
in Adelaide Australia
Paolo: i live
in Vicenza in Italy
Vance: last
august
Paolo: ok
Vance: How
was it?
aline has
joined
Vance: WHat
is your favorite city?
aline: hi
guys! iwas desconnected..but came back again
Michael: Glad
you're back Aline.
Vance: Perugia
aline: thanks
Michael: Can
you hear us talking Aline?
Vance: Hi Aline
aline: yes
Michael: Great!
Maggi: Hi
Aline!
Paolo: hi
Aline
Vance: Do
you visit other countries?
aline has
left
Vance: Austria
Maggi: can
you hear us Aline?
Vance: She
lives in Germany
Vance: She
lives near Frankfurt, in .. (Maggi??)
Michael: Aline
said (before she left) that she could hear us..
Maggi: Griesheim
Vance: Aline
must be having connection problems
aline has
joined
aline: god!
im having problems here...
Vance: Can
I write about ... in my country?
Michael: So
Aline - connection problems/
aline: yes..
aline: thanks
for pronounciating my name correctly!
Michael: I am
having trouble with the Palace too.
aline: As
mike said
aline: the
first one
Vance: aleeeena
aline: aleeeneeee
aline: yes!
aline: hi
aline: nice
to meet you all too!
Michael: Ok -
we've got it!
Michael: What
do you do Paulo?
Michael: International
Transportation Company?
Vance: Michael
teaches on line and he teaches teachers how to use the Internet
Michael: I
teach teachers how to used the Internet.
Vance: snap
Michael: how to
USE the Internet!
aline: i`ll
try to speak.
Michael: Yes
Aline - try to speak.
Vance: I
can't hear what Michael is saying, can you Aline?
aline: yes.
everything
Michael: Sorry
Aline - no sound.
Vance: to
enjoy what? I heard Paolo, but not Michael.
aline has
left
Michael: Enjoy
my job Vance.
Vance: difficult?
Vance: the
future
Michael: No not
the only way - just one way.
Vance: We
have been teaching this class for two years.
Michael: What
do you think Paulo? Do you think it is the way of the future?
aline has
joined
aline: me
again!
Vance: hi
aline: whenever
i try to speak iim disconnected!!!
Paolo: yes
miki i think yes but not olnly
Vance: welcome
back. At least you're persistent.
aline: no
doubt about it!
Michael: We
will always need teachers in the classroom.
aline: yes i
agree
Michael: The
Internet is the best resource the world has ever seen!
aline: internet
is something reaaly incredible
Vance: yep
Vance: I
was saying that the internet is generally useful, so people want to learn about
it.
aline: i`ll
try to speak again, but if i get disconnected again i`ll give up.
Michael: We
heard you!
Vance: Therefore,
we can use it in our teaching because people want to use it.
Vance: Yes,
I was trying to hear Aline
Vance: To
increase the volume
aline has
left
Michael: the
Internet is primarily concerned with the transmission of information, and that
has been part of education’s
Michael: core
business since day one. We as educators therefore, have a responsibility to
hijack at least part of the internet
Vance: People
in countries like China can find unfiltered news on the Internet.
Vance: I
can't hear Maggi, unfortunately.
Michael: This
above statement is from a man called Nigel Paine.
Michael: Technology
guru in Scotland.
Michael: See
you all next time.
Michael: Ciao!
Nice to meet you Paulo. Come back again.
Vance: Michael
has to go pick up his son who is visiting a friend
Vance: ahhhh
Michael: My son
is about to get his driver's license!
Vance: webhead
Michael has
left
Vance: wave
wave wave
Vance: efiwebheads-subscribe@egroups.com
Vance: memorized?
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