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Chat with students Paolo from Italy, Aline from Brazil and Moral from China, and teachers Maggi, Michael, and Vance

May 14, 2000

The regular Sunday chat was held in two different places: Moral couldn't reach the voice chat and Michael hasn't been able to get the Palace lately, so those two couldn't meet.  With newcomers Aline and Paolo happily talking with Michael in the voice chat, Vance and Maggi kept up with conversations in both areas.  Interestingly, both chats moved onto the same topic, the value of the Internet in teaching and its impact on politics and society, at about the same time.  The HearMe plugin was used to excellent advantage in the voice chat, with explanations of what was said being written out for students who had difficultly understanding spoken English.  Meanwhile, in the Palace, the conversation moved on to the Falungong and whether cults should operate freely or be subject to government control or repression.

 

This chat has two parts: The Palace part and the Voice Chat part

 

Chat in the Palace

 

 No connection - Click Anywhere to enter a Palace

  Searching for Plug-ins...

  PalacePresents Viewer Installed!

  Connecting to efi.virtualscholar.com:9998

  Connected via TCP

  *** Welcome to The Virtual School House Vance again!

  Vance:      @64,64 !It's Vance again

  Vance:      I've got to juggle my windows here

  Vance:      OK, I think that's got it.

  Maggi:            hmmm...juggling eh?

  Vance:      Yeah, ok time for a p break.  Sergei's still there but not responding to ICQ.

  Vance:      brb

  Moral:            @64,64 !It's Moral

  Moral:            Hi Vance and Maggi!

  Maggi:            Hi Moral

  Maggi:            there zyou are ...:-*

  Moral:            where are you 2, in the voice chat?

  Maggi:            yes,,,

  Moral:            with who else maggi?

  Vance:      Hi Moral.  How are you?  Nice to see you again.  With Aline and a new student names Paolo

  Vance:      named ...

  Moral:            i am fine. thanks.

  Maggi:            I have a question Moral..

  Moral:            please go ahead mggi.

  Moral:            maggi..

  Maggi:            Today again I read that more people were arrested of the Falun Gong

  Moral:            Oh, i do't know. it is not reported here. where did you get the information?

  Moral:            don't..

  Maggi:            it is in the papers her and with pictures

  Moral:            i just don't know about it. but i'll  check it online later.

  Maggi:            why does the government , do you think, arrest them...they were doing nothing but celebrating the birthday of the founder.

  Moral:            how many are arrested?

  Maggi:            lots

  Vance:      Hi, was this just recently?  I've heard it in the news, but not in the last week.

  Maggi:            women and children too

  Moral:            Oh, children?

  Vance:      Where?

  Moral:            do you know much about falungong?

  Maggi:            in Beiging

  Maggi:            ooops...yes I do

  Vance:      It seems to me that Falun Gong is not dangerous.  Do you think they are Moral?

  Moral:            i am not sure...but let's talk about before you talk about your flys and getting away from vientnam war...

  Maggi:            flys!!!!!!!!!LOL

  Vance:      Moral, can you repeat the question?

  Moral:            i don't think what government do is right. they should do things under law...

  Maggi:            you mean flying and not going to Vietnam

  Moral:            flying...

  Maggi:            whose law Moral?

  Moral:            i think chinese law is enough about it...

  Maggi:            the Chinese law does not allow anyone to believe in anything...

  Moral:            Vance...you told me you can drive airplane and you succefully got away from vietnam war...how?

  Vance:      Do you mean when I fled (escaped) going to Vietnam?

  Maggi:            that"s what he means

  Vance:      Yes, I used to fly.  That's it, I was a private pilot, and I wanted to learn more about flying by going to the military, the Navy.

  Moral:            in chinese constitution, i am sure, everyone has the right to believe  religion...

  Moral:            yes, i mean it vance...

  Maggi:            then why do they arrest the falungong...it is not even a religion

  Vance:      I took a medical and went to an interview but at the interview I told them I had to think about it ...

  Vance:      I had decided by then that I didn't want to kill people.

  Vance:      So I didn't go

  Maggi:            and we have a choice Moral...in many countries you don"t

  Moral:            you were right vance.

  Vance:      I'm curious about that too. I don't really understand what's dangerous about Falun Gong.

  Maggi:            if China went to war and they said you had to go Moral could you say no?

  Moral:            let me tell you a little about it...

  Moral:            i will say no...

  Maggi:            and what would happen to you do you think

  Moral:            i see many people died in sino-vietnam war too..

  Maggi:            on both sides

  Moral:            i don't agree what the government does on falungong...

  Moral:            but i don't like the founder either...

  Vance:      But why does your government object to Falungong?

  Maggi:            the article I saw said the government had no idealogy of it's own so any other is a threat...

  Moral:            if a religion is based on fraud, what will happen?

  Maggi:            hey...if it is it will be exposed and people can decide for themselves

  Maggi:            we have plenty of cults.

  Moral:            but in china, things may be different...

  Maggi:            falungong is not a religion...

  Vance:      Is this religion based on fraud?

  Moral:            what is idealogy?

  Maggi:            like communism or Marxism

  Maggi:            or democracy

  Maggi:            then another article was about a young writer whose books are being burned

  Moral:            what books?

  Moral:            the communism doesn't allow any opposition...

  Maggi:            A book called Shanghai Bsaby by Zhou Weihui

  Moral:            but they allow some unharmful religion...

  Maggi:            well...this is a tradition of govt in China and has nothing to do with communism

  Moral:            i don't know the book. maybe because it is banned...

  Maggi:            why ban a book?

  Vance:      Don't you think the Internet is changing people's attitudes.

  Moral:            almost every communism country does this..

  Moral:            i don't why maggi...

  Maggi:            This is from the article:

  Vance:      Here in the UAE, a conservative country, the next ruler has said he sees an end to censorship.

  Moral:            i dislike any block of information.

  Moral:            but let me talk a little more about falungong...because we hold similar thought about other issues.

  Maggi:            Destroying books that challenge the state's worldwide view occured as early as 213 bc when Emporer Qin Shi Huangdi ordered all books in the kingdom burned to unify people's thought.

  Vance:      Do you know many other people like yourself and Maggie, Moral, who meet people from other countries online?

  Moral:            you much  about china 's history.

  Maggi:            this information is freely available

  Moral:            No, i don't know Vance...many people online don't know english...maybe it your responsibility to teach them..hehe..

  Maggi:            we're trying

  Moral:            internet is also a threat to information block.

  Vance:      Well, we can help them to learn

  Vance:      I think it brings us all closer together.

  Maggi:            I have another one on icq and she sells tableware

  Moral:            the founder of falungong said the world would end in 1999...

  Maggi:            well it didn"t...and are you sure he said that

  Moral:            we are the people who want to know different thoughts. so we are tegother.

  Moral:            i am very sure maggi.

  Moral:            and he also require people not to take medicine when they are sick.

  Maggi:            it never appeared here and the man lives in the US

  Maggi:            and thast is news to me too...

  Moral:            the father of a friend of my sister refused to go to hospital when he got severe cold...

  Maggi:            Idon't go to the hospital for acold

  Moral:            because falungong doesn't allow its member to take medical care...the founder says it would decrease the members's degree if they take medical cares.

  Moral:            maggi...it was lucky that it was only a cold...falungong doesn't allow its members to take medical cares under any circumstances...no matter you suffer from cancer, aids or else...

  Moral:            some people died for the delay of medical cares...

  Maggi:            we have other religions like that...but I read it was basically meditation and a special form of exercise

  Maggi:            and why should that worry the govt?

  Moral:            i don't know maggi, maybe because they demonstrated.

  Maggi:            leave them alone and stop making a fuss and less people would join

  Moral:            and it disgusted me when i heard that the founder said he cured many diseses like polio by just slap the patients body.

  Moral:            i do't think what government does is right but falungong is also disgusting...

  Moral:            the founder announced that the world would end in 1999 but he could save us if all people joined it.

  Maggi:            so...let them make up their own minds

  Moral:            i may be right maggi...

  Maggi:            this is what people in Taiwn object to most

  Moral:            i prefer to agree with you...i just say falungong is not a good things either.

  Maggi:            not having freedom to believe what they want

  Maggi:            whether it is good or not

  Vance:      I personally don't like cults like this, and sometimes they can make their members do bad things, but it just seems that these people weren't bothering anyone. 

  Vance:      But i have to admit i havn't been following it all that closely.

  Moral:            but the founder bothers its members.

  Moral:            some people got mad after trying falungong. ( i don't know why and if it was fault of falungong.

  Maggi:            how?

  Maggi:            all the demonstrations they have done were peaceful and thousends have been arrested and sent to jail or other places

  Moral:            some people died because the delay of medical cares because they believed the founder coould cure them.

  Maggi:            this makes the news here

  Maggi:            so....

  Maggi:            their choice

  Moral:            that's what i said goernment doesn't do correctly.

  Maggi:            education would solve that

  Maggi:            but not allowing people to believe in anything freely will only cause these people to be stronger

  Moral:            in china, millions of people taked poor or none education.

  Moral:            i agree with you maggi.

  Vance:      It would be better if people could get all the information they want and decide for themselves.

  Vance:      Any government that supresses information is doing that for only one reason ...

  Moral:            that's the perfect solution vance... not just ban it...

  Maggi:            educate them first so they can make responsible choices

  Moral:            it is too hard maggi. 1.2 billiion country.

  Maggi:            but your government has been doing this for centuries...has nothing to do with communism

  Moral:            1.2 billion people ..

  Maggi:            it can be done

  Maggi:            if they stopped wasting time and effort on other things

  Vance:      If teachers could teach what they thought was correct, then finding teachers would not be such a problem.

  Moral:            no, maggi...the us also mistreated the black people...it is not all along with the history...

  Vance:      But if the teachers have to be "taught" first, then ...

  Vance:      That's a good example.  I think people in the US find that the better off the black people are, the better off everybody is.

  Maggi:            yes and the information is out there for all to see...same with the Aborigines in Australia

  Moral:            yes, teachers are not enough in china...because of their poor salary mostly.

  Maggi:            there is a photo exhibition of lynching in the south of black people

  Moral:            i mean the history does less than the system.

  Maggi:            the system has stayed much the same but the name has changed

  Moral:            china is a country with thousands of years of history, so history also  affects. i agree.

  Vance:      When more people like you find common ground with people like us everywhere, then the minds of the people will change gradually.

  Maggi:            or at least we will learn to tolerate each other better

  Moral:            now there is compitition in econmic field... i believe it is need in politics.

  Vance:      I've got to go everyone.  I promised my wife, Bobbi, that would come home early.

  Maggi:            that could be tricky

  Maggi:            ok...bye Vance...stop and pick up a red rose

  Moral:            i personally dislike falungong. but i disagree what the government does. that my views.

  Moral:            bye vance...see you..

  Vance:      If you want to send me more of your conversation, you can later.  Up to you.

  Vance:      It seems like it would be interesting to read.

  Maggi:            ok

  Moral:            how about you maggi, would you go?

  Maggi:            depends on how long we stay

  Moral:            Ok,

  Vance:      Go on.  I'm just going to grab what's here so far and leave quietly.

 

Vance:      Go on.  I'm just going to grab what's here so far and leave quietly.

  Moral:            see you vance...

  Moral:            maggi, seems like the western press has not reported all about falungong.

  Maggi:            I don't have to go Moral

  Maggi:            or your press is making some things up

  Vance:      I'm going to pay more attention to Falun Gong after this conversation.  Have you looked it up on the Internet Moral?

  Maggi:            the man should have a site on the web

  Moral:            Ok, vance ... i 'll check and tell you more...i promise..

  Moral:            i can't visit the site i am sure.

  Maggi:            I could even look now

  Vance:      http://www.religioustolerance.org/falungong.htm

  Vance:      http://www.abc.net.au/news/default.htm

  Vance:      http://www.rickross.com/reference/fa_lun_gong/falun27.html

  Moral:            maggi, do you mean i am misled?

  Moral:            thanks for the urls vance.

  Vance:      http://anulib.anu.edu.au/clusters/ap/subjects/chi.html

  Moral:            you should know much vance.

  Vance:      http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19991008/ige08004p.html

  Vance:      http://www.minghui.ca/gb/00dec/1214/falungong_realstory.html

  Vance:      There, I'll put those in the chat logs and look them up tomorrow.

  Vance:      I just went to http://www.altavista.com

  Moral:            thanks vance...

  Vance:      Can you get those search engines, Moral, like http://www.google.com, or http://www.askjeeves.com?

  Moral:            i can reach http://www.yahoo.com. but i never the one you refer.

  Moral:            the ones.

  Vance:      http://www.hotbot.com, http://www.excite.com ... I guess my favorite is altavista, but I like google as well.  Try them and see if the information is there.

  Maggi:            sorry...had to answer someone on icq

  Moral:            Ok, thanks again Vance. i will.

  Vance:      That's ok, we've got the logs.  You can catch up.

  Vance:      OK, I've got to run.  See you guys.

  Moral:            see you vance...

  Moral:            maggi, how you remember the word falungong?

  Moral:            how do you

  Maggi:            I take a picture of how the word is spelled

  Moral:            interesting.

  Moral:            falungong is not bad in the other points...it urges people

to be kind and tolerance.

  Maggi:            then I can tell when I spell wrong...it doesn't look right

  Moral:            and to be true.

  Maggi:            this is something people need to believe in...

  Moral:            i agree.

  Maggi:            ...it is something we as parents pass on to our children

  Maggi:            and from generation to generation

  Moral:            you are rather right...

  Maggi:            like Jose said...ethics

  Moral:            but in some points...

  Maggi:            what difference does it make what a perso believes if he

treats all the people in his life fairly?

  Moral:            it urged people to join it for the end of world.

  Maggi:            threatening is not right

  Maggi:            I have never seen a word of this

  Maggi:            and I read a lot of different things

  Moral:            it is threatening the system...so the government...

  Maggi:            and watch the news

  Maggi:            how does that threaten the system?

  Maggi:            it sounds like a bunch of kooks

  Moral:            me too. i am trying hard to get different information. i

just judge things myself. but if i was misles...

  Moral:            the system thinks so. i don't know. maybe because they

domostrated.

  Maggi:            and your govt right now would tell you not to listen to me

  Moral:            i subsrebed abc news. it's good. do you?

  Moral:            yes, but i will. i can make my choice.

  Maggi:            online?  no...I seldom check out the news other than the

headlines online

  Moral:            mailing-list service.

  Maggi:            I read a newspaper everyday that is international

  Maggi:            and piles of magazines

  Maggi:            and what the news on  tv...

  Maggi:            German, English and American because they all approach it

different sometimes

  Moral:            Ok, it is enough. but i like abc news. michael recomended

it.

  Moral:            the tv news is same here.

  Maggi:            I am sure it is good...

  Moral:            i like internet news.

  Maggi:            the first url Vance gave was not found

  Moral:            i didn't check them.

  Maggi:            and I read a lot of different things

  Maggi:            I'm doing it on the other computer

  Maggi:            got it

  Moral:            what is it?

  Maggi:            seems like it is similar to Reiki

  Moral:            reiki?

  Maggi:            finding the universal life energy

  Moral:            what else?

  Maggi:            they say it is a network for transmitting information and

practices in which people may dip pn an incidental basis or more regularly

  Maggi:            it incorporates Buddist nd Tazoixst principles with exercise

and body cultivastion

  Maggi:            sorry...Taoist

  Maggi:            it is not a religion  cult or sect

  Maggi:            it is seen as a way of life

  Moral:            but it contains religion.

  Maggi:            it comes from ancient Chinese methods to cultivte mind and

body as a means of keeping fit and healing oneself

  Moral:            we can say it is basically.

  Maggi:            that is not religion

  Moral:            it only a part of it...

  Moral:            i don't have any falungong book in hand or i 'll tell more

about it.

  Maggi:            well this site explains the whole history of it...

  Moral:            i also teach something similar to religion.

  Maggi:            none of it sounds religious to me

  Moral:            it also

  Maggi:            I do basically the same with Reiki

  Moral:            the chinese government also says it is not religion... but

seems the west says so.

  Maggi:            and I don"t see it as a religion

  Maggi:            the West does not call it a religion

  Moral:            i remember they do...am i wrong?

  Moral:            Well, let's prepare and talk about it next time. nice

talking to you. how do you feel today's coversation?

  Maggi:            no...we don't ...that is propaganda from your govt

  Maggi:            great!

  Moral:            it's possibe.

  Moral:            maybe i misremember the source of the information.

  Maggi:            why do they send these people to labor camps without a

trial?

  Moral:            I don't know.

  Moral:            i can't explain.

  Moral:            it is not right i think.

  Maggi:            this is what is holding up admission of China to the WTO

  Moral:            yes.

  Moral:            Ok, will collect some information and we talk about it some

other time?

  Maggi:            human rights

  Maggi:            sure...it was great talking to you...should I save it and

send it to Vance

  Moral:            it is human rights problem.  i 'd like to talk about

falungong.

  Moral:            yes. please do so. please correct it. it's too long.. :-)

  Maggi:            I'll read up on these sites too

  Moral:            Ok, i 'll check some chinese sites and we talk some other

time.

  Moral:            OK?

  Maggi:            ok...

  Maggi:            deal

  Moral:             a deal.

  Moral:            !

  Moral:            thanks maggi. bye for now!

  Maggi:            bye Moral...:-)

 

 

 

See The Palace part

 

Here’s the text chat portion of the voice chat.  Keep in mind that as participants are writing, others are speaking as well …

And people are also going back and forth between the Palace and the voice chat!

 

Maggi has joined

Status: Connected

Vance has joined

Vance: I need to get a headset

Vance: brb

Vance: back

Maggi: did you hesar that?

Vance: hello, you there (here:)

Vance: no

Vance: hmmm

Maggi: it shows that it is working here

Vance: try again

Vance: yeah

Maggi: work?

Vance: yep

Vance: your lit'es still green

Vance: http://lightning.prohosting.com/~vstevens/ctelt2000/ch000511.htm

Vance: Your sound is breaking up pretty badly :-(

Vance: But I heard you say something about when you left, and I saw in the logs where you took your leave

Vance: You were putting your shoes on as you were leaving and you could still hear maggieEE ...

Vance: Not getting good delivery, and your light is still green.

Maggi: hmm...

Maggi: but I was offline and could still hear them talking whioe I put on my shoes.

Michael has joined

Maggi: then something is stuck on your end

Vance: I guess it comes on green when there are still sound packets left to deliver

Michael: Hi Vance. Hi maggi.

Vance: THAT"S why it stays green

Maggi: right...like you have something stuck on sour behind...besides the other end of a chqai

Vance: Did you hear two voices there Maggi?

Maggi: no I didn't

Maggi: it is on your end then

Vance: I didn't catch all of that

Vance: I heard "more please"

Vance: after a gap

Vance: and "if you don't mind"

Vance: Now I see two green lit icons and heard Maggi briefly

Vance: I can't hear michael at all now but Maggi is coming through fine

Michael: can you hear me Vance...OK

Vance: yeah

Vance: Well, as usual, doesn't seem to be working perfectly

Vance: Now, I held down my f9, nothing, then both of you have come on, and now I hear nothing.

Maggi: so what is ever perfect...

Vance: Oh well, ...

Maggi: we silenced us...

Vance: At least it works when we take it public

Vance: I can hear you now

Vance: Yep

Michael: That's the important thing - that it works when we go public.

Vance: http://lightning.prohosting.com/~vstevens/ctelt2000/ch000511.htm

 

Maggi: so I can put this thing on any web page

Vance: what thing?  The hearme?  Yeah, anyone can.

Vance: can't hear maggi again

Vance: silence

Vance: that's what I hear

Vance: (nada, zilch,)

Vance: aware of what?

Michael: How about me from me Vance?

Vance: I know, you think we need a theme

Vance: What problem is that?

Vance: No central topic?  Even when there is a topic it's hard to keep people on it.

Vance: So many people coming and going all the time, each entry and exit disrupts the flow.

Vance: I find at online conferences that holding a group of transient visitors to a topic is like holding a fish down underwater

Vance: Can't hear either of you so you'll have to write to me

Vance: I heard maggi say that's not what this is all about

Michael: We

Michael: We are talking about the session the other day - M thinks we spent too much time tlkaking technical stuff.

Maggi: oh...Aline is on icq but she can't see either of you

Maggi: well...was it?

Michael: And I didn't thk that there was too much rtech talk...

Michael: You'e back V.

Michael: Thet could be more moderated.

Michael: The Palace sessions are different.

Vance: Thats it Maggi

Vance: You both did great, and Michael, at one point the room fell silent while everyone listened to your presentation

Paolo has joined

Guest817 has joined

Maggi: who is Paolo...?

Michael: Hello Paulo.

Guest817 has left

aline has joined

aline: hi!

Vance: Good, I just welcomed you and Aline

Vance: Hi Aline

Michael: Hello Aline.

Maggi: beautiful city Aline...

aline has left

Michael: I live in Adelaide Australia

Paolo: i live in Vicenza in Italy

Vance: last august

Paolo: ok

Vance: How was it?

aline has joined

Vance: WHat is your favorite city?

aline: hi guys! iwas desconnected..but came back again

Michael: Glad you're back Aline.

Vance: Perugia

aline: thanks

Michael: Can you hear us talking Aline?

Vance: Hi Aline

aline: yes

Michael: Great!

Maggi: Hi Aline!

Paolo: hi Aline

Vance: Do you visit other countries?

aline has left

Vance: Austria

Maggi: can you hear us Aline?

Vance: She lives in Germany

Vance: She lives near Frankfurt, in .. (Maggi??)

Michael: Aline said (before she left) that she could hear us..

Maggi: Griesheim

Vance: Aline must be having connection problems

aline has joined

aline: god! im having problems here...

Vance: Can I write about ... in my country?

Michael: So Aline - connection problems/

aline: yes..

aline: thanks for pronounciating my name correctly!

Michael: I am having trouble with the Palace too.

aline: As mike said

aline: the first one

Vance: aleeeena

aline: aleeeneeee

aline: yes!

aline: hi

aline: nice to meet you all too!

Michael: Ok - we've got it!

Michael: What do you do Paulo?

Michael: International Transportation Company?

Vance: Michael teaches on line and he teaches teachers how to use the Internet

Michael: I teach teachers how to used the Internet.

Vance: snap

Michael: how to USE the Internet!

aline: i`ll try to speak.

Michael: Yes Aline - try to speak.

Vance: I can't hear what Michael is saying, can you Aline?

aline: yes. everything

Michael: Sorry Aline - no sound.

Vance: to enjoy what? I heard Paolo, but not Michael.

aline has left

Michael: Enjoy my job Vance.

Vance: difficult?

Vance: the future

Michael: No not the only way - just one way.

Vance: We have been teaching this class for two years.

Michael: What do you think Paulo? Do you think it is the way of the future?

aline has joined

aline: me again!

Vance: hi

aline: whenever i try to speak iim disconnected!!!

Paolo: yes miki i think yes but not olnly

Vance: welcome back.  At least you're persistent.

aline: no doubt about it!

Michael: We will always need teachers in the classroom.

aline: yes i agree

Michael: The Internet is the best resource the world has ever seen!

aline: internet is something reaaly incredible

Vance: yep

Vance: I was saying that the internet is generally useful, so people want to learn about it.

aline: i`ll try to speak again, but if i get disconnected again i`ll give up.

Michael: We heard you!

Vance: Therefore, we can use it in our teaching because people want to use it.

Vance: Yes, I was trying to hear Aline

Vance: To increase the volume

aline has left

Michael: the Internet is primarily concerned with the transmission of information, and that has been part of education’s

Michael: core business since day one. We as educators therefore, have a responsibility to hijack at least part of the internet

Vance: People in countries like China can find unfiltered news on the Internet.

Vance: I can't hear Maggi, unfortunately.

Michael: This above statement is from a man called Nigel Paine.

Michael: Technology guru in Scotland.

Michael: See you all next time.

Michael: Ciao! Nice to meet you Paulo. Come back again.

Vance: Michael has to go pick up his son who is visiting a friend

Vance: ahhhh

Michael: My son is about to get his driver's license!

Vance: webhead

Michael has left

Vance: wave wave wave

Vance: efiwebheads-subscribe@egroups.com

Vance: memorized?

Vance: remembered?

Paolo has left

Vance: we'll be in touch


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Last updated: May 15, 2000